11 Responses to “Latest Starforce Reboots Your Computer”

1. I think I’ll wait for some real evidence of this before I pass judgement. From what I’ve seen, a lot of hatred for Starforce has come from second hand stories and urban legends – damage to optical drives which people haven’t experienced but ‘know a mate who has’. Unrecoverable system errors on, let’s be honest, poorly maintained PCs which were just waiting for something to tip them over. While I won’t necessarily celebrate Starforce’s existence, I’m one of the 2% of gamers who isn’t ready to boycott it just yet

   I understand that people don’t like the idea of a driver being installed silently without their permission (even though it’s probably in the EULA) and that I do agree with - Starforce protected games should be upfront about what they’re installing. Talk of root kits, hacking abilities, opening backdoors and such – as far as I’m away – is unproven.

   Dan on 03 21st, 2006

2. I disagree Dan. StarForce is trying to do a legitimate job, stopping people copying software. However, it is installed without explicit consent (wrong) and may or may not do nasty things to your machine. Either way, there is no smoke without fire, so someone, somewhere must have had issues with this software.

   The problem I see is that I go and buy a game, and this is installed, wreaking havoc. If I pirate it, I download something to stop the copy protection, and my machine works. therefore, the copied version is better than the legal one, and if I buy the legal one, I am being persecuted for doing the right thing. If it were easier to buy than to pirate, more people would buy.

   Tom on 03 21st, 2006

3. What do you disagree with exactly? It can’t be the installing ‘without consent’ as I’ve already said they should be more upfront about that. So, are you disagreeing with the fact that I’m saying Starforce’s problems are over-exaggerated?

   There is no smoke without fire, but I’ve got a feeling that this is a crap-load of smoke caused by the smallest of fires. I’m sure people have had problems with Starforce, same as legitimate gamers had problems with Safedisc, SecureROM and every other copy protection in its infancy. I do not think however that the numerous reports of Starforce ‘destroying’ optical drives, ruining computers, etc are necessarily true. Didn’t the makers of Starforce offer a $10,000 bounty to anyone who could prove that Starforce could be directly linked to hardware problems on their PC – a bounty which is as yet unclaimed?

   How many problems have you personally had with Starforce that you can say with 100% certainty were Starforce’s fault? Personally, I’ve had problems with a three year old DVD drive not being able to run some Starforce games. Is that directly Starforce’s fault? Maybe – I don’t know enough about how DVD technology to comment. Are the makers of Starforce asking it to so something out of the drives spec? If so, why do my new drives have no problem? As I can’t pin this directly to Starforce, I’m quite happy to attribute it to ‘one of those things’. Too many people are quick to want to criticise Starforce due to half arsed facts and rumours which we’ve all heard, but to which no one can track the origin of.

   Dan on 03 21st, 2006

4. I’m going to chime in here. I personally have no love for Starforce especially with it installing hidden drivers on my computer when I want to play a game. I can understand a copy protection system working while the game using it is running but this Starforce software is there perminently and without my consent. I also think if this reboot thing is true that this is more like a virus than a copy protection system. Look at the similarities. Both viruses and Starforce are installed without the users knowledge or consent doing who-knows-what in the background. Remember the virus a while back that would do nothing but reboot your computer ever few minutes? How Starforce can do that legally I don’t understand.

   Adam on 03 21st, 2006

5. I don’t mind copy protection, I applaud developers protecting their games. Protection such as Securom and Safedisc, may not be as effective as Starforce, but they are unobtrustive to the legitimate game buyers out there. I’ve never had a problem with installing a game that uses these protection systems, but I can attest that I’ve had problems burning CD’s with Starforce on my system.

   I kept getting coasters after coasters when I was trying to burn all my photos taken at my birthday party, and when I remembered I had Starforce on my system (from Trackmania Nations) I uninstalled it, and I was able to burn a CD then after. I’m no novice with computers. I know Starforce can’t destroy hardware, but it can surely interfere with operations as many has proven.

   If Starforce were able to protect games without interfering with your hardware, I don’t think it would all be a problem. Starforce say it’s the pirate spreading hate for their product, but these same pirates aren’t doing the same for Securom and Safedisc, are they?

   Matt on 03 21st, 2006

6. Pirates don’t have the same problem cracking other copy protections. Sure, they can generally do StarForce too – but not right away. I’m not necessarily saying that it is the pirates spreading propaganda – but that’s what I think the majority of these stories are.

   I will reaffirm my position for about the installation process – I do not agree with that in anyway. While they do have the user’s consent (legally) as the EULA will mention it, I‘ve said from day one that consent should be explicit.

   My initial reaction was simply that while the story is certainly newsworthy due to the fact that it is concerning StarForce, I’m not as quick as others to bite until I see evidence. I don’t disagree with the fact that some users will have software and/or compatibility issues. Your example Matt was that when you removed Starforce you could burn again. How do you know it’s not your burning software at fault? Or your drive? Your software may have an inherent problem which Starforce has brought to the surface, likewise the drive may have a firmware bug. I’m not saying this is likely in your case, I’m just using it to highlight how easy I is to blame StarForce. What if StarForce is utilising some standard within the ATAPI(?) specification which other companies haven’t adhered to? I don’t know enough about the technical workings to comment but the kind of narrow-mindedness I’m seeing regarding anything StarForce is sickening.

   That comment isn’t directed toward anyone who’s commented so far by the way, as I know all of you from the old forums and I know you can structure good, intelligent, arguments, as indeed you have so far. Delve deeper into the StarForce fiasco and see some of the idiots slating it with no just cause, maybe then you’ll start to lean toward the other side of the fence!

   I knew I’d be in for some stick defending StarForce to the extent I do, purely because no one else seems to. Everyone applauds it for attempting to protect the industry, but these same people are quick to accuse it of bring the root of all evil.

   Dan on 03 21st, 2006

7. Well, my experience of burning 3 straight coasters when my drive never burnt coasters, then uninstalling Starforce, and not getting a coaster either suggests it’s a Starforce problem, or it could be a very weird coincidence. You’re right though, I should try and reproduce the problem, and next time I end up installing a game with Starforce, I’ll see if coasters are created again.

   However, my knowledge extends beyond just my own experience, and those of others. A game developer mentioned to me how displeased he was with Starforce’s methods of protection, and at the time I didn’t think much of it, as I wasn’t too familiar with Starforce and didn’t think the small number of games using it warranted much of my attention. But with the stunt they pulled with Stardock’s game, and now this with Futuremark, it’s making me think about what the developer said, and I believe we’re going to see more publishers avoiding Starforce more often as a result.

   Futuremark is a pretty credible company, they’d be shooting themselves in the foot if they were just blowing smoke and mirrors. Their reputation with 3DMark being a feasible benchmark suite has taken a hit the past year, so I doubt they’d be pulling something out of a hat with regards to Starforce’s new method of copy protection.

   Matt on 03 21st, 2006

8. I totally agree on the Stardock situation - that was absurd.

   It’ll be interesting to see how this pans out – if the reported ‘feature’ is indeed true then my stance with the company will totally change! I also agree with what you said about Futuremark – I fail to see how they would benefit from reporting mistruths. That being said, I’m confused as to why they haven’t disclosed any more details.

   Dan on 03 21st, 2006

9. I was disagreeing with your argument’s main thrust - that Starforce is probably not creating issues, and is not that bad - rather than anything overly specific.

   My opinion, as I mentioned, is that any copy protection system should not install stuff to my machine or tweak Windows to my detriment, without my explicit consent. I accept that you agree on the consent issue.

   However, to be honest, a copy protection system that tries to tell me how to use my machine is plain wrong. Should I wish to make a copy of a disc, that in itself is OK - backups etc. What is not OK is to install a second copy of the software. Free country (world?) and all that - a developer WILL NOT tell me what I can and cannot do with my machine. Period.

   Given that, I think it plain wrong that I end up with that situation if I buy a legitimate copy of a game. If I pirate, I get the same game, without copy protection crap, for free. Something wrong there somewhere…

   Stopping piracy is very simple - put the software at a more affordable price. E.g. FEAR - I bought it, even though I had no need, because it was cheap enough for me say “sod it”.

   Tom on 03 21st, 2006

10. I guess we all have different ideas of the extent of invasiveness of starforce, depending on what we’ve read and what we chose to believe. Isn’t this what the internet is about ? Tons of information and opinions, with not nearly as many ways to verify them.

    However, I think we can all agree on the fact that as end users or consumers, we, having purchased the product, should have the right to do what we want with it, taking the EULA into consideration. And making backup copies of our games to preserve the original disc should be well within our rights.

    A copy protection system that prevents us from doing that is bad enough, but one that interferes with unrelated computer activities like burning cds of personal content, based on the context of “possible piracy”, is simply absurd.

    With the increased aggressiveness of their protection drivers, starforce will only see less game companies adopting their protection.

    As mentioned by Tom earlier on, starforce penalizes the legitimate gamers more than those who use pirated games. Though nobody can say for sure exactly how much starforce is screwing up their system, increasingly widespread negative reports, whether true or just merely rumours, will definitely spook potential buyers off. Nobody wants to blow hard earned money on a game only to discover their game doesn’t run, their privacy invaded, or their computer screwed by an over-enthusiastic copy protection system.

    Therein lies the genesis of piracy, a term cast into darkness by the very companies that spawed it. Why take the risk and trouble of buying a legitimate copy of the game with all its invasive protection systems when you can simply get the same game at a lower cost, minus the protection? Piracy is not being advocated here… this is simply how the world works– a balance of forces, where an unwarranted action generates an equally unwarranted reaction, where an oppressive government creates a rebellious populace. Newton got it figured out centuries ago.

    Game makers have to pay starforce for the use of their protection system, and this cost will be passed onto consumers. The rise in cost of the games plus the presence of the protection system, while cannot be proven beyond doubt as factors causing people to turn to piracy, most certainly will not increase the likelihood of them buying the game either. Seeing how cost is one of the factors cited by people who choose to buy pirated games, it may be beneficial to the game companies to charge less for their games by taking away starforce altogether.

    ET on 03 22nd, 2006

11. The main problem with Starforce is not that it prevents CDs from being burnt, etc while the game is running, it is that the protection still remains and hinders other normal activities while the game is not running, this is far worse than any brutal methods that affect computer preformance/etc while the game is running and this is what i, personally, have the main gripe with.

    Neo-Vortex on 04 1st, 2006